John Piper and the Rick Warren invitation

It is amazing, no, sickening, how so many Christians can turn on one another based on one single piece of evidence. These people are as fickle as sports lovers.

John Piper invited Rick Warren, who has proven himself to be a bit of a chameleon when it comes to religion. He literally is all things to all people. When he is with Muslims or Jews he keeps his Christianity very private. He changes his message depending on who he is with.

I do not agree with John Piper for inviting Warren to the national Desiring God conference for 2010. However, does that mean I must now lump Piper with the rest of the heretics like these intrepid finger pointers do? I do not think that Warren is a true heretic either! He is terribly misguided and does not stand up for the gospel clearly in all situations, but that does not make him a heretic. It makes him weak!

Rick Warren tells lie on Larry King Live

It happens so often that pastors and churches want to be so relevant in society that they completely disregard the teachings of the Bible. In the end, the gospel is thrown on the dung heap of relevancy, and as a result thousands are left to fend for themselves on a very slippery slope on the wide road leading to hell.

"(13) Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. (14) For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Mat 7:13-14)

The problem with that search for relevancy, as Rick Warren is so eagerly searching after, is that it actively attempts to widen the narrow gate that leads to life.

The problem with this scenario is that it is not the narrow gate that is really being widened (since that is an impossibility), but the way from the hard road that leads to the narrow gate of life is lost. Instead of finding this road again, the road that leads to the wide gate of destruction is found.

This seems to be the road that Rick Warren has chosen. Only time will tell!

On Larry King Live this past Monday, Rick Warren, on the issue of Prop. 8 (which changed the California constitution to say that marriage is between one man and one woman), said:

"During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never -- never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going."

However, just weeks before the 2008 U.S. elections, Rick Warren said the following:

"The election's coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you're praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.

"Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear."

This last quote stands in clear contrast to what he said on Larry King Live, which makes Rick Warren a liar. It is impossible for him to have forgotten what he had said on such an important issue just five months ago.

What is the meaning of this?

Does Warren so badly want to curry the favour of the ungodly that he would be willing to lie on national, no, international television?

You can read the whole story at Rick Warren disavows support for Prop. 8.

Update:

Disingenuous redefining of evangelicalism

Paul Edwards has written a strong case against the current Evangelical Liberals Left in his article, "Defining Evangelicalism Down."

He wrote:
"The Religious Left is successfully redefining what it means to be a conservative evangelical by misrepresenting what it means to be a conservative evangelical. In a recent conference call hosted by Faith in Public Life, one of the emerging voices of the Religious Left, Dr. Joel Hunter, said:

"There’s also a change in the voices that are defining what is conservative now, and what is evangelical. In the past couple of decades you’ve had some very loud voices on both sides – hard right, hard left – and when those were the only choices, then of course many evangelicals are going to go with the hard right because, well, that’s kind of where we mostly are. Now there are many more voices that are expanding the agenda, and so those people that have always had kind of a holistic approach, rather than just a one or two issue approach, are now feeling permission and given permission to be more nuanced and more sophisticated in their approach, rather than just going in a very bifurcated system. And so, what you’re hearing now is that the old voices that appointed themselves as the definers of what was evangelical or what was conservative are not holding sway with the majority of evangelicals anymore.

"By convincing America that conservative evangelicals are concerned only with two issues, stopping abortion and preserving traditional marriage, these new voices of evangelicalism are effectively making the case that conservative evangelicals ignore poverty, HIV/AIDS, and the environment. The history of evangelicalism tells a different story."

Finish reading the article here.

Rick Warren shows lack of discernment

It happens to all of us. Somewhere along the line we meet people who claim to be Christians, and we accept that claim at face value. It usually happens to young Christians who have not studied the Bible enough to know what real Christians believe.

It happens to most of us. I remember, when I was but a young Christian with not much knowledge of others who claimed to be Christians, that I, together with my youth group here in South Africa, ran into the ZCCs (Zion Christian Church). To us it was very simple. "Look, it is a Christian church!" However,... these people have merged Christianity with their ancestor worship, and ended up with something that is not Christianity at all! How can you worship the ancestors and Christ together? That is an abomination. It is like worshipping the devil and Jesus while claiming that you are a Christian!

Now this is what I do not understand in Rick Warren's case. He wants mainline churches to reconcile with evangelical churches to stop their decline in membership.

According to Warren:
“100 years ago the phrase ‘social gospel’ first came out. Some people took that to mean only if we reform the social government and society and not personal faith in Christ Jesus – that is, if we make the world a better place – we don’t need personal redemption.”

Warren feels that the mainline churches went one way and evangelical churches went another. He continued:
“Who’s right? The fact is both are right. Somehow we got divided like Jesus didn’t care about society or members of society didn’t need Jesus. I think we need both.”

Warren's idea here is ignoratio elenchi. As "Seven of Nine" from Star Trek: Voyager would have said, "Irrelevant!" Warren's conclusion here is simply irrelevant. It may be right, but it is irrelevant. Sure, we need "personal redemption" and we need to be involved in society. However, Warren misses the point.

While speaking with the dean of the Washington National Cathedral, Samuel T. Lloyd III, Warren said, “The reconciliation is that in a pluralistic world…we (Christians) need to be on the same team because we share the same savior.” This is where many in evangelicalism differ with Warren. It is this very belief of Warren's that make his statement above ignoratio elenchi.

The fact is that among the mainline churches there is gross apostasy. They either deny all or some of the fundamentals of Christianity. From denying the virgin birth, to denying the death of Christ, to denying the resurrection of Christ, to denying that the Bible is the inerrant inspired Word of God, these people have walked away from what the Bible clearly teaches on almost every facet the Bible touches on, whether doctrinal or moral!

The fact is, contrary to what Mr. Warren has said, we do not "share the same savior." The fact is that these people cannot call themselves Christians when they deny the very faith they claim to hold onto.

Which brings me back to Rick Warren. Is this man so Biblically inept, that he will welcome anyone into the Christian fold? Who's next? The Mormons? The Jehovah's Witnesses? It seems to me that Warren wants to become all things to all people. Yet, contrary to the apostle Paul, it certainly is not to win some. He went to Iran... to pat Ahmedinejad on the back. He went to Jewish synagogues... to help them grow their membership. Now he goes to mainline churches... to reconcile with them. Based on what? That we have the same "savior." Think again!

How is that so many hold Warren in such high esteem (for some just below God Himself), yet he does not know why evangelicals parted ways with the mainline churches almost 100 years ago? Liberalism flooded what is now called the mainline churches. It came to be accepted in these churches to deny the fundamental doctrines of the faith and to basically become "social clubs" with the name of Christ somewhere close.

Evangelicalism did not part with mainline churches over something like community involvement. It was a doctrinal parting. The evangelical church continued with following the fundamentals of the faith and caring for the poor, etc. Several surveys over the years have concluded that evangelicals give and care more than mainline churches or the world do. Yet, people continue to hold onto the modern media caricature of evangelicals as uncaring. That is simply false!

Ingrid Schlueter wrote:
"Rick Warren’s presence in the pulpit of National Cathedral on January 27, and his call for 'reconciliation' with such churches should disgust every Christian who believes in the authority of Holy Scripture and who understands the critical importance of the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith. National Cathedral is a New Age pantheon to the gods of the world religions. That's why the church can feature goddess theology proponents teaching women how to dance in 'sacred circles', welcome the worship of Tibetan monks, teach Buddhist meditation techniques and introduce attendees to the Jewish Kabbalah. Where is Rick Warren's concern about the people who are on their way to hell in these churches that blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ with goddess worship, homosexuality, a rejection of Christ’s penal substitutionary atonement, a denial of the authority of Scripture, and the promotion of the doctrines of anti-Christ?"

The point is that Rick Warren does not seem to exercise any discernment. How can this man want to merge truth and heresy? Truth and apostasy?

To read more on the essentials or fundamentals of the faith, read "What is the Gospel? What is the foundation to the Gospel?"

Some posts on the importance of truth and doctrine:
Without truth - empty, heartless gestures to God
The Relevancy of Doctrine
The Gospel: Diluted and non-Saving
Is the preacher a "reliable carrier" of God's truth?

Rick Warren: Pastor of porn sellers?

Rupert Murdoch is starting to move into putting porn on TV channels! Does Rick Warren, his mega-church pastor, have something to say about his church member's unholy partnership with the devil's porn industry?

There is lot of concern about Rick Warren's connections to Rupert Murdoch, and rightly so!